We pulled the talent trees out of the WoW: Forever game files (build 1.60.1.70753) and compared every talent with the latest Classic Era client. The short version: if you expect Classic with a few new zones, the talent window will surprise you.

The numbers

  • 465 talents across 27 trees, against 432 in Classic Era.
  • 115 new talents, 82 removed, and 270 changed in position, ranks, requirements or values.
  • Paladin changed the most (20 new, 13 removed), Mage the least (6 new, 2 removed).

You can browse every change per class on the class pages, for example Warrior or Paladin, and play with the trees in the talent calculator.

Three things Blizzard clearly wanted

1. No more talent taxes for buffs. Improved Blessing of Might, Improved Blessing of Wisdom, Improved Mark of the Wild, Improved Power Word: Fortitude, Improved Battle Shout, Improved Devotion Aura: gone. In Classic you spent points so the raid would get a slightly bigger buff. Forever moved that value elsewhere and made several auras and totems raid-wide instead.

2. No weapon-type rules. Axe, Mace, Polearm and Sword Specialization are gone from Warrior Arms, Rogue Combat lost its Dagger, Fist and Mace specializations, Shaman lost Two-Handed Axes and Maces, and the racial weapon specializations went with them. Blizzard said it openly in the October 26 notes: loot tables should not be judged through "required" weapon types. We think this is the single best change in the game. Nobody should pass on an upgrade because it is a mace.

3. More active play. Riptide, Wild Growth, Penance, Mutilate, Ice Lance, Fingers of Frost, Prayer of Mending, Divine Aegis, Maelstrom Weapon: a lot of the new talents are buttons or procs, and many of them have later-expansion names.

Our take

The first two points are a clear win. Classic's talent trees were full of points that did nothing for the person spending them, and Forever's trees are tighter: around 50 talents per class and about 147 ranks, so 51 points buy you roughly a third of everything. Every point is now a real choice.

The third point is where we are cautious. Blizzard itself admitted in the November 2 notes that some changes were "hasty" borrowings from The Burning Crusade and Wrath, and it already walked several back: Lava Burst is being replaced by Call of Thunder for Elemental Shamans, Mage Frost Blast was removed again, Critical Mass went back to 3 points. That is healthy. Forever works best when it builds its own answers instead of importing Wrath's spec identities wholesale, and the November 2 changes show the team knows it.

What we would watch after launch:

  • Healers. Riptide, Wild Growth, Penance and Prayer of Mending are all in. Classic healing was about mana and downranking; Forever healing will be about cooldowns. Expect the first tuning pass here.
  • Threat. Defensive Stance went to 80% threat, Bear Form to 115%, Righteous Fury to +33% plus 90% Holy threat, and Blessing of Salvation is gone. Tanks will hold aggro far more easily than in Classic, and damage dealers will be able to go all-out sooner.
  • Rogue, Shaman and Warrior. Their November 2 rework is announced, but the game files we read do not have it yet. Their trees on this site will change once the next game build ships.

Forever is not Classic+. It is a new game on the Classic map, and the talent window is the clearest proof of that.